Professor Bainbridge...on law, politics, religion, culture & food

I am on your side here.

I’m not sure the crate-on-the-roof is ipso facto bad, certainly better than the loose-dog-in-the-pickup-bed approach.  And I think I read that he was considerate enough to rig a wind-screen.

But not stopping to allow relief (and the liquid nature suggests undisclosed problems as well) is inexcusable.  Period.

I am absolutely with you on this.  I was considering voting for Romney until I read this, even though I have serious doubts about the credulity of someone who believes a hillside in Palmyra, NY opened up and the angel Moroni stepped out with the gospel on gold plates.

But this is the last straw.  Angus, Guinness, and Ginger would never forgive ME if I voted for him.

There are an estimated 71 million families in the US with beloved household pets.  If we assume that roughly half are Democrats, then Romney may have just lost the registered voters in about 35 million families.

We’ve had travel-gate and nanny-gate and all sorts of document-gates.  Now we have dog-gate (pun intended).

My last dog, a fantastic beagle, developed severe viral gastrointestinal distress in the middle of the night and came into my bedroom whining to be let outside for relief at 2am.  I was slow to wake up to the whining, so the poor guy figured that he needed to make his point in a hurry, and proceeded to jump up on the bed and relieve himself.  Needless to say I woke up really quickly and started cussing the night blue.  I guess this lack of “emotion-free” crisis management eliminates me from serious consideration as a presidential candidate.  Then again I have never strapped one of my dogs to the roof of a car…

I hate the idea of strapping the dog to the roof, but, as the first commenter notes, I’m not sure the risks are categorically different from tossing a dog in a pickup bed.  I guess that the real indictment is that it was such a calculated decision to rig the whole thing up, and then to continue using it after the dog’s clear negative reaction.  Hmmm.

It may be arguable whether strapping the dog to the top of the car suggests good judgement.  It is less arguable that hosing him down and leaving him up there when that didn’t work.  (His only alternative at that point was to strap himself on the roof instead and rearrange the people inside to accomodate the dog.)

However, Romney’s thought that telling us about this incident reflects well on him is damning.

This is what happens when interfering legislators make it illegal to strap sons to the roofs of cars.  Have these people never heard of the Law of Unintended Consequences?

Let’s not just be inhumane. Let’s also make sure to model that behavior right in front of all our kids.

And here’s something else. Putting the dog on the roof was not just cruel. It was also unnecessary. It was a dumb act that reflected a lack of planning and common sense.

The Globe story indicates the dog story happened with a car they called the “White Whale.” A photo of the car is here. The photo caption calls this car the “White Whale,” and describes is as a “white Chevy station wagon with … wood paneling.” That description matches the photo.

Lots of relevant Chevy data and photos can be found here. The “White Whale” is clearly a Chevrolet Caprice Classic. The model year is as early as 1977, but obviously no later than 1983. A photo of a 1983 Caprice Classic Wagon is here. It matches up well with the “White Whale” photo provided by the Globe.

Not all these wagons were built with a third-row seat, but the Globe story indicates that the “White Whale” did indeed have a third row seat.

This is all background for the following question: what was the passenger capacity? Given a third-row seat, the answer is either 8 or 9. Models in 1982 and earlier were rated as 8-passenger. In 1983, this was increased to 9-passenger (sounds like they added a middle seat belt for the third row). See the site I cited above.

Next question: how many people were in the car? It’s hard to know if Ann was in the car. The Globe story is unclear on this. Let’s assume she was (although there is some reason to believe she wasn’t). That means the passenger-count was 7.

Now let’s consider that the boys were young and fairly small. See this photo of the family in 1982. In 1983, at the time of the dog story, the youngest was only two, and the oldest was only 13.

Bottom line: the number of empty seats was at least 1, and possibly as great as 3 (if Ann was not in the car, and if they had the 1983 model, which was rated as 9-passenger). That means there was room to put the dog inside the car. Irish setters are typically under 70 lbs. The size of a child.

It was fine to put the crate on the roof, but it should have been packed with luggage, not with an Irish setter.

The car was presumably packed with luggage, but it should have gone on the roof (this car obviously has a large roof rack). If it didn’t fit, they needed to either pack lighter, rent a trailer, or use a shipping service. Or buy what they needed in Canada.

Another solution, obviously, was a larger vehicle. This is not a poor family making an emergency escape from a war zone. Money was obviously not a problem. The minivan was introduced in this country (by Chrysler) late in 1983, but a full-size van (own or rent) was obviously an option. If you don’t want to own a vehicle big enough to carry five kids and a dog, and lots of luggage, maybe you should get rid of some of the kids.

The story doesn’t just reflect cruelty. It reflects a lack of common sense, since the problem had other solutions. The Globe presents it as a story about crisis management, but the crisis was easily avoidable. We don’t need another president who blunders into crisis on account of poor planning.

He’s supposed to be smart, but maybe his intelligence is of a shockingly narrow variety.

Oops, sorry about the non-working links. I’ll find a way to fix that.

My above comment, except with links that work, can be found here:

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2007/6/27/15342/6665/474#c474

Very odd post, I am going to have a hard time reading legal and political commentary from a guy who thinks his dogs will be mad at him if he votes a certain way.

PB Replies: Are you always this literal minded? Good grief.

I love dogs as much as the next person.  When we went away (flying com’l. air - what do you expect for $608?), Champ (RIP) mostly went to a boarding kennel.  Each time we recovered our boy, he was so unnerved.  I am not sure that that was materially better than what Mr. Romney did to his pooch. 

Nevertheless, if its Madama Hillary vs. Mitt Romney in Nov 2008, based on the issues facing 300 million people, Mr. Romney gets my vote. 

I bet Gore takes his pooch first class in his Lear jet.  Hey!  Doesn’t Mitt get carbon credits for that? 

Sorry.

So, after hosing the dog off, they put it back in the crate on the roof, wet and cold?  How much torture was that dog supposed to take?

It’s not as bad as Bill Frist’s catkilling adventures, but it does help explain Romney’s enthusiastic support for torture and “doubling Gitmo.”

We hire a sitter to come and stay with our dogs when we go on vacation.  They’re part of the family; we could not in good conscience put them in a kennel.

How could Romney be so incredibly idiotic, incompetent, and cruel?

It is cruel to strap a dog to the roof of the car no matter how you look at it. Crates are made of pretty thin plastic and, even with a wind guard, the wind rushing into the crate at 60 mph would be suffocating for a poor dog to bear. Also, being out in the open like that with cars and trucks rushing by—knowing that you depend on some thin ropes to hold you to the top of the car—would be frightening for me let along a dog. I cannot believe the insensitivity it takes to do something like that. Is that a reflection of they type of judgement Romney will use as president.

Would you put a dog in a carrier in the back seat of a convertible?

But not on the roof w/ a windshield?

I don’t see any real difference.  In both cases, he’s in the elements, shielded by a windscreen.  BFD.

What a sad situation for the dog and for the kids to have to witness their Father’s stupid decision and insensitivity to an animal who loves unconditionally. I also feel and believe it’s important to watch how someone treats their animal because is that not a reflection of how one would treat humans? Not to mention this is a slap in the face to Mormonism, animal rights and human rights. This man was not going to get my vote for other reasons, but now I can add animal cruelty as another reason.

oh, the humanity

http://gloriabrame.typepad.com/inside_the_mind_of_gloria/images/bikerdog_1.jpg

I had 5 kids, two wolf hybrids, and we travelled pulling a tent camper all the time.  The dogs (both large) traveled in the Plymouth Station Wagon with us...and this was in the 70’s.  We would be on the road camping for two or three weeks at a time. 
Dogs when they stress get the Big D...big time...and I imagine the poor pup was stressed, windshield or NOT!

I am fairly conservative and agree with the professor-I like my dogs more than I like most people.

The thought of anyone doing this, I can’t care who it is, makes me sick.

The dog was like that for 12 hours and then when the accident happened he hosed him down and put him back up on top of the car.

I don’t think this is funny but rather sad and stupid.

I wouldn’t be surprised if other people are seriously “pissed” off about this.  May sound stupid to many that are not dog owners but as a dog owner it makes me angry to hear of another dog owner treating a dog like this.  Put the dog in a kennel or get a sitter while you go on vacation rather than “creating” this contraption on top of the car where the dog was strapped to.  I don’t care if it was 1965, 1982 or yesterday it was dumb.

What’s so funny to me is that EVERY glowing puff piece has some sort of example of what a slimebag this guy is. For example this piece (http://newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/22/90847.shtml) on his wife contains the gem…

(Ann Romney speaking) “...he’d [Mitt] dated a bunch of my friends, and so I kind of knew him a little bit from my friends. He was one of those guys that would date a girl for like six weeks and then go on to another girl, and then another and another. He kind of did that through my sophomore year. He dated about three of my friends. So I was very wary of him.”

Let’s see, that “was March 21, 1965” - Mitt was born March 12, 1947. So he was fully 18. Hmmmm. Eighteen year old (and presumably a high school senior) rich kid working his way through the sophmore class, basically 15 year old girls. “he’d broken a bunch of my friends’ hearts” says Ann. We know what that’s code for - they put out and he dropped them.

Does anyone find this creepy? Had she been my daughter I guarantee you Mitt would now be walking with a limp.

Gives new meaning to the phrase, “I wouldn’t elect him for dogcatcher,” doesn’t it?

You are the ones who have spun it from putting the dog in the only space available and even constructing a windshield (maybe a mistake in hindsight to take the dog along but hardly sinister) into a purposeful act of animal cruelty.  Ridiculous.  Forget people who have their animals in the back of their pick-up trucks, lets hang those who have them in their convertibles too.  Once the dog is there and they are on the trip, there is little to be done.  Washing him off was a humane thing to do.  If he hadn’t, that would have been a little more of a problem to me.  Don’t other people wash their dogs with a hose sometimes?  Really though, I recognize that this place is full of Romney haters generally, so I am not surprised but it is still silly to spin this into more than it surely is.

Isn’t Romney the varmint shooter also? Not that there is anything wrong with knocking off the occasional groundhog, but I recall the article that mentioned Romney’s varmint shooting seemed to indicate it was more hobby than necessity. I will shoot a hog that is burrowing in my garden, but I won’t shoot one for the hell of it. People who shoot small inedible creatures for fun, are usually the type who as kids got their jollies from squishing ants or torturing cats.

So this dog story in fact does speak to some aspect of this guy’s make-up that I personally don’t like. How can people try and minimize boxing a dog and strapping it to the roof of a car? I presume Romney also uses the accelerator to get from point A to point B. How would you like to be in a cramped box whizzing through space at 100 and something clicks, no doubt being jolted and jangled en route. No wonder the dog crapped - in itself a sure sign that it was experiencing distress, because dogs don’t soil their own spaces readily. It’s simply dreadful judgment. I would object if a family member proposed doing the same. I suppose you could argue that at least he didn’t lasso the dog and drag it from the fender. But there is no excusing this as okay behavior.

I won’t be voting for Rom cos I’m living where he was headed, but if I could I wouldn’t let this be the deciding factor. It is a factor though. One worth considering. People who are unkind to animals generally have other characteristics that don’t evoke affection.

"Nevertheless, if its Madama Hillary vs. Mitt Romney in Nov 2008, based on the issues facing 300 million people, Mr. Romney gets my vote.
I bet Gore takes his pooch first class in his Lear jet.”
T. Shaw

I wouldn’t vote for “mr. Romney” with his five or ten strapping military age sons if he was the only candidate.
Just what we need another religious Repub dumbass.
Now I would hazard a bet that their Irish Setter is smarter than T.Shaw.

convertible vs. rooftop? no comparison. in the convertible, the dog is WITH HIS/HER PEOPLE. dogs put up with a lot to be with us, because they need to belong to a pack.

on the roof, on the other hand, the dog is not only uncomfortable, but is isolated, alone, and probably feels it is being punished for something it doesn’t understand.

if the dog had been slowly accustomed to it, it might be comfortable with it for short distances. but 12 hours to Ontario??

the fact that the dog shat itself is a clear sign something was very wrong.

Romney sounds like a first-class jerk.

just what we need - another president with a history of mistreating animals.

I am going to kidnap Sam and Toby… not for ransom, mind you, but because they’re both so damned cute!

I’ve got to tell you, my golden’s been gone 13 years, and these pics - especially of the older, white-faced, discolored nose, cataracts in eyes shots - have gotten me a bit misty… damn you and your wonderful dogs!

I am not actually that literal minded, but was instead making a subtle point about how it is strange to pick the leader of the free world based on how he transported the family dog thirty years ago.

I find it interesting that Romney uses this as an example of how he handles crisis management - this is a crisis which HE created (puts to mind Iraq).  I do want to vote for someone that handles crises in a controlled manner, but I do NOT want a leader that creates his OWN crises.  And for those people that say this act is no big deal, I want you to imagine what your reaction would be if you went by a car that had a dog strapped to the top of it.  I, for one, would be horrified.  (especially knowing that the driver could just had easily strapped the LUGGAGE to the top of the car.  Seems to me the driver clearly put more value on his suitcases than his kid’s dog).  Shameless.

Dean,

I bet the dog is smarter than I am.  I have trouble calculating my AMT each year. 

I have a son in the US Army infantry.  He’s a better man than you.  What bothers me is that scumbags like you are polluting the country my son is risking life and limb to defend. 

If you are within 100 miles of ground zero, I’d like to get together and ease your anxiety. 

T.

I would never vote for Romney anyway, no matter how much the dog story reflects badly upon him.  What cracks me up is the way the story has become a “single issue” style automatic elimination issue like abortion.

Another thing about this story creeps me out - that the Romney clan had an Irish Setter and were compelled to call it Seamus.  Was their next dog a dalmatian named Spot?  Did they follow Spot with A German shepherd named Fritz?

The Romney family seems more like a parody than reality as we find out more about them.  I wonder if they’ve ever met the Coneheads.

Romney better gather the family, load his varment gun and board up the windows. Word on the street is PETA hired too Pitbulls too go down to Utah to put him in his own Kennel box...permanently.

I wonder what a veterenian who is not a republican butt kisser would have to say regarding the health of this poor animal.  This certainly tells much about how looks are so much more important than the true quality of core individual.  If Romney, and MSM, and the party of ‘family values’ can actually shrug this off, I hope that there are lots and lots and lots of people reading the real information online. This article, and Romney’s behavior are quite telling of the thought process of people in power.  I live in a neighboring state of Mass. and when they ‘won’ Romney as their governor, I think it’s about the only time I felt sorry for the residents of Mass.  We were ‘blessed’ with Romney’s occupation during the summer months, and it was not a pleasant time for this area, no, not pleasant at all with his spoiled rotten kids and his ‘I am entitled’ attitude.  Such losers.

You’re kidding, right? Prof. Bainbridge, I appreciate the fact that you are a very smart man, and a dog lover, but I am also a smart man and a dog lover. I have owned a number of dogs in my nearly 60 years. All of them ride in the back of my pickup truck in kennels when I take them to hunt tests and field trials.

As to putting a dog inside the car, that is just dangerous. In case of an accident at any degree of speed, the dog, because it cannot be secured, becomes a missle, dangerous both to itself and others.

Whether Romney (if he even gets the nomination) gets my vote will not depend on this episode. BTW, I went out, talked with both Flash, Roo and Kanga and they all agree with me.

http://www.DogsAgainstRomney.blogspot.com

You’re looking for pro-Romney spin?

About what? How is what he did different then putting a dog in a convertible?