Professor Bainbridge...on law, politics, religion, culture & food

I’ve been asking around, because the pattern here is starting to be apparent.

IN the Ryan Frederick case, the testimony was that the team went “dynamic” once they thought Ryan Frederick knew they were there.  Just like what they’re saying here.

And what police officers are telling me is that this is POLICY in their departments.  Even if its a knock and announce, they read SCOTUS as saying they can go in “hut hut hut” when they have an exigency, and they treat the occupants’ knowledge they are there as such an exigency as a matter of policy.  This is illogical.

If its a knock and announce, then the law has hold the state actor to knock, identify themselves, and present the warrant.  The mere fact that the occupants become aware of an officer (or team) serving a warrant before they knock on the door shouldn’t count as an exigency.  The police only can convince themselves into thinking otherwise, if they plan on the “knock and announce” being a perfunctory 2 or 3 second ruse, something they engage in by way of form, without any intention of letting the occupants voluntarily comply anyway.  I guess if they get all dressed up in their “tactical” gear, they’re amped for a fight and will make sure one happens.

This is a by-product of Hudson, unfortunately.

Perhaps SCOTUS will need to clarify that when you have a knock & announce warrant, awareness of the team by the occupants does not count as an exigency, unless they also hear:

“Quick flush the drugs down the toilet”

or

“Its the coppers!  Shoot em!”

or

“Oh my god, I’m being brutally attacked and held hostage by these hostile Black Labradors!  Someone save me.”

(As an aside:  Can we all agree that someone that has so small a quantity of contraband that it can be flushed in a couple minutes is far too small a fish to justify dynamic action when there may be children or innocents exposed to the risks of injury or death?)

You don’t understand. 

Dominating and terrorizing ordinary folks IS the non-cash benefit of this low class, low paying job.  It is precisely why they took the job.  Just watch COPS or DALLAS SWAT to see this attitude in action.  It is so much FUN to bust down doors, shoot defenseless dogs, and make homeowners “shit” over a baggie of MJ. 

Unfortunately, the Supreme Court has repeatedly told the POLICE that just this kind of conduct is OK.  After all, no one busts into a federal Judge’s home like this—so they can’t believe that it happens to other “good” folk.

Not to disagree with your aside, gonzo, but you can fit an awful lot of contraband down a toilet, the sort of thing that fits on a 2GB sandisk the size of ones fingernail. Or the SIM chip from your cell phone. Its like flashpaper to a bookie. In a world where it takes 3 units to write a speeding ticket, one can never be too certain.

The mayor could have been quietly approached, for “loitering” or to check for rabies and city tags, except the only evidence was still sitting on the front porch at that time. They’d probably been fuming in their cars since the mother-in-law had told the carrier to leave it on the porch, practicing their monologues like travis bickle (a movie character).

I was walking my pair of dogs one night, around 22:30, when an officer snuck up and asked me for ID. I put it on the sidewalk and backed up, as the dogs were feeding off the energy. I didn’t have the audacity to say no (beer leads mostly to talk, with little follow through). The officer came back from her cruiser about 3 minutes later, and both dogs hadn’t let down their hackles in the interim. She let me go, and not 10 steps away no fewer than 11 marked and unmarked cars descended at that address. Never did figure out who they were looking for or why, but knowing the police couldn’t lay a hand on me without getting within biting distance of the dogs made me fear for the dogs’ lives from that incident on. (Just a few months earlier in a nearby town, an officer had shot another officer trying to shoot a dog serving a wrong-address warrant. To be honest, that happened in a low-budget neighborhood and i felt i was beyond that by living in a low crime community with no section 8 housing. Then i found out a few of our mayberry (mayberry being a reflection of our community) officers had come from that formerly gang-ridden city. We are all potential criminals, and it is up to the judge to sort it out.)

If I were sitting on the jury, we’d be calculating damages midway through the opening argument. And there would be many zeros to tally.

Had a case locally, facts really too involved to describe. The alleged offense was a hypertechnical reading of certain state laws, completely nonviolent, suspect with no criminal history. But after being swindled by some crooks who told him this was how to sue a judge for wronging you, he’d filed some incorrect paperwork, which might have (but didn’t) harmed a judge, who complained. The evidence sought was masses of documents that couldn’t have been flushed in six months of trying.

He’s carrying stuff out front for a yard sale, when a full SWAT team rushes up, shouting to get down. He jests “I guess you’re not here for the yard sale.”

Right behind him is an open door. But their plan was to enter another, closed, door, so they pass the open door, make a demand to open at the other. Since the homeowner is outside, they get no answer from within and break it down.

I’m quite convinced that, except for the fact complainant was a judge, the matter would have been ignored, and certainly not carried out with a SWAT team.

Motion to suppress was of course denied, the judge finding it was a reasonable search and they had reason to stick to the original plan and break down the door even tho they had to pass an open door to get to it.

Kyle,

Sure, some high tech stuff could be flushed.

But the facts of a specific case are important.  Here, for example, the police had 32 pounds of marijuana in a big box.  They knew it was 32 pounds, because THEY delivered it.

There is NO WAY that 32 pounds could be flushed in a few minutes, so knowledge by the occupants that the police were outside should not in my view count as an exigency to go in.

Otherwise, all warrants are functionally no knock, which frankly, is the way I think departments treat drug warrants in particular no matter what they say.

Its a sad state of affairs when your factual innocents is of little or no moment to the police when it comes to a raid. 

The raids are just short cuts for actual police work.  The police would rather blow down the doors and write reports about suspects in the same place with the contraband, than actually do an investigation. 

Saw that in the Ryan Frederick case, and to a much worse extent (outright fraud by the police), in the Kathryin Johnston case.

With nearly two decades of police experience behind me, perhaps I can offer a bit of perspective.  There are legitimate reasons for SWAT teams and the training and equipment that go with them.  There are also legitimate reasons for no knock warrants.  There are legitimate reasons to shoot dogs when conducting drug raids.  However, legitimate or not, the police have an absolute obligation to get things right, not only because great harm can result when they don’t, but because every officer in America knows that there are a great many liberals who hate them for the offense of being police officers, and who will be more than happy to sue them for any slight, real, imagined, or simply made up out of whole cloth.

I know about this incident only what I’ve read.  With that in mind, it appears that the officers did have grounds to implement a SWAT response.  However, going tactical on the front door without a no knock warrant would require substantial exigent circumstances, and I’ve seen no indication that any of those existed.  I also see no justification for shooting either dog, and if in fact an officer killed a dog while it was running away in the yard, God help him, because no jury will.  Can you shoot dogs in these situations?  Yes, but not unless they pose a real, imminent threat.  What I know about this situation would tend to indicate that no such threat existed.  As to the rest of the behavior by the officers involved, it seems to indicate an almost complete lack of preparation, organization and tact. 

Again, based only on what I know about this case from the net and the media, it would seem that the police screwed up in many ways, ways that open them to real and damaging liability.  In the least, some officers and commanders appear to need reprimands and substantial training, perhaps reassignment.

This is an argument for proper police work, not for doing away with SWAT teams, or for vilifying the police in general.

Why do we flinch at the killing of the family pet?  Because we all knew scumbags from our youth who tortured small animals. It makes us queasy to know that these people have grown up and become the people that enforce our laws.

Many shrinks think that Zoosadism is one of the first steps towards Sociopathic behavior. One of the early signs of psychopathologies that are detrimental to society. Even without this knowledge we know, instinctively, this to be true.  The kid who delighted in pulling off the wings of a fly often grew up to become a bully and a jerk. And beats his wife.

In short it is sociopaths that kill the family Black Lab and we should all be concerned that they carry weapons and badges in our defense.

How many times have the police been right!  How many times have the police solved murders!  How many tons of drugs never made it to the street because police stopped the sales!  And how many thousands of times each month do the police make the right decisions!  How many police officers are killed by criminals while the officers are doing their duty!  Mistakes happen...shit happens...live with it.  Without the police, this Country would be a LOT worst for all of us!  And yes...I AM BLACK!!!!

Mike,
So, can you explain what the “grounds to implement a SWAT response” were in this case?

I don’t see a lack of preparation, organization, and tact.  I see a purposful, blatant, willful ignorance.  These sorts of things aren’t “mistakes”, they are SYSTEMIC.  I’m no lawyer, but for some reason, the phrase “criminal negligence” comes to mind.

Radley Balko at reason.com has scores of cases such as this one, many of them with dead private citizens and dead cops as a result, not just dogs.  But as was said above, there is something magical about dogs in the American psyche, and perhaps Fido will be an important ally in the insane war on drugs.

And yes, I AM WHITE!!!

Who cares how many tons of drugs they stop? The war on (more and more) drugs is morally wrong and unwinnable. Never mind that it was started purely out of the racism of leftists in the first half of the century.

I’m of a rather authoritarian mindset, but the important point of authoritarianism is to get things right! The whole blue wall and sovereign immunity BS undercuts the ability of all aspects of law enforcement to get to the truth. Serious force is needed to secure society, but it needs to be applied accurately and people who misapply it through malfeasance or negligence need to be treated even more harshly than regular miscreants.

Get rid of drug laws and all vice laws - they only serve to enrich criminals. Have the police deal with serious crime, as well as the quality of life stuff. Vice criminalization just engenders horrid fascist bureaucracies, the misuse of SWAT, and lets departments profit from the drug war (fun with seizures… this can’t possibly be a bad idea can it? tax farmers redux, whee).

Mike said:

but because every officer in America knows that there are a great many liberals who hate them for the offense of being police officers.

Hate to tell you Mike, but your fellows are adding conservatives to that list as well.

That scheme of having a carrier drop off something at someone’s door and an associate picking it up has been around for years. For example credit card thieves order expensive items and through the internet track delivery so they can scoop it up. With the number of people getting deliveries of _huge_ amounts of dope it boggles the mind that they never considered this.

On the other hand, if you think of this lot as a group of thugs looking to exercise their power over other people regardless of the legalities then it makes all the sense in the world. Sociopathic thugs that the State has given badges and guns to.  We should all be worried.

Mike,

Thanks for the perspective.

I don’t necessarily have a problem with taking a tactical team to drug warrant searches, but:

1.  Do some investigation FIRST, don’t try to make the whole case on the search.  Interestingly, in this case, once they actually did some investigation, they tracked down the employees at the shipping company who were involved.  Why couldn’t that old fashioned detective work been attempted first, and the warrant (with its attendant risks) taken later if the investigation did not bring results.

2.  If the warrant says it is a no knock, I’m sorry, but I don’t buy a claim of exigency based on knowledge by the occupants that you’re there.  Sounds like you don’t either.  Kudos, you’re one of the good ones.  Please try to get yourself elevated in your department, as we have a dire need for your mindset. 

3.  There is a danger, ever present, with the tactical teams.  When your holding a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.  I think that’s something that will need to be confronted in these scenarios, because we’re seeing more and more overreaching by the SWAT teams.

Again, thanks for the insight and the candor.

And if the mayor had owned a gun and came out with it when the non-uniformed officers burst into his house? What then? He would have been shot straight out. Thats why I don’t own a gun. I figure I’m more likely to be shot by the police instead of criminals (and I am a white guy living in a safe, affluent suburban town probably not too different from the mayor)

As a Duke grad, forgive me if I don’t think there ever will be justice...just self justification. “Clearly, the menacing black lab had to be shot.” The cops will take a two week paid vacation, then go on with their career. They might even be promoted, consistent with the need to justify the raid with images of heroics.

That being said, I think if the guy gets a good personal injury attorney, he will collect without going to court. The county will pay a great deal not to have dog shooters on trial on TV day after day.

Why? Killing black labs in the burbs gets more media attention than killing black guys in the city. QED.

Happens in big towns, happens in small. The glamor of the SWAT team, and the tons of money politicians like to throw at SWAT teams, is ironically resulting in the defacto “decriminalization” of property crimes and other lesser crimes by police departments, who seem bored with anything else than “full metal jacket” raids.

Ironic...the politicos and police think decriminilization will increase crime, and yet their increasing criminalization of drug crimes is effectively decriminalizing real crimes.

In my town of 35k try and get something done about tagging, petty theft, not so petty theft...our police typically want a video and a signed confession. Crimes that are witnessed and reported even when license plate numbers and vehicle descriptions are given..."make a report, we’ll see if the county attorney wants to do anything”.

We would be better off defunding the SWAT teams...big cities may have a need for one...but PG county is pretty big, and look what these morons did.

"but because every officer in America knows that there are a great many liberals who hate them for the offense of being police officers, and who will be more than happy to sue them for any slight, real, imagined, or simply made up out of whole cloth.”

Um, I am hard core conservative, and I am starting to not like cops much myself.

When you lose middle-aged, professional, civic-minded community leaders like me, you guys are done for.  We are pretty much there, from what I can tell.  No one I talk to likes cops, and we are the voters, property owners and taxpayers, not surly teens getting busted for beer and weed.

When I encounter small town cops who act like Delta Force warriors, I know sh-t is going wrong, wrong, wrong in the police academies.  And don’t get me started about all those cops obviously taking steroids…

Please allow me to add a few additional insights.  I am no longer a police officer; I’ve been teaching high school English for over a decade.  I was a SWAT operator, and there is an absolute need for SWAT personnel, equipment and training virtually everywhere.  The fact is that the police are and must be (in a Democratic society) a reactive force.  They are also virtually always understaffed, often badly so, and often under armed.  We need SWAT for the same reasons not every motor vehicle works for every situation, and for the same reasons that a multitude of hammers exist. 

Again, I’m being careful about making pronouncement about this situation because my years in law enforcement taught me that unless one can read all of the relevant reports, even actively conduct the investigation, it’s very hard to understand a given incident. It’s very easy to be wrong. 

However, my experience also has taught me that it’s virtually impossible for people of bad will to long survive as police officers.  The liability involved is simply too great, and most police officers won’t stand for it.  It’s particularly difficult for that kind of thing to take place when two or more officers are involved.  An entire tactical team corrupt, evil, sadistic?  Very unlikely.  In fact, members of SWAT teams are commonly among the most experienced, calm, rational and restrained officers available, people unlikely to overreact in crisis situations.  As I observed earlier, it seems that at least some of the officers involved did overreact, but we can’t be sure. 

In many ways, it reminds me of the Rodney King incident, which occurred while I was an active duty cop.  When I saw the few seconds of video shown around the world, I immediately thought “well, we have no idea what happened before the video started, and this guy might be absolutely deserving of the beating he got and more, but those poor cops are toast,” and so they were.

Regarding conservative thinking on this issue, if it is as it seems to be, everyone should be upset and should do what is necessary to prevent such poorly supervised behavior in the future.  But a large part of what differentiates liberals from conservatives is that conservatives think clearly and respond from facts rather than emotion and ideology.  An emotional response would do away with all SWAT teams, stop drug raids, and hamstring the police in every way, shape and form.  A conservative response would be to deal appropriately with wrong doing and to fix whatever went wrong without destroying the very necessary ability of the police to do their jobs.

"There are legitimate reasons for SWAT teams and the training and equipment that go with them.”

Maybe, but mostly it’s just the chance to play ninja.

“There are also legitimate reasons for no knock warrants.”

No, there isn’t.  Rather, there wouldn’t be if we still had a bill of rights.

“There are legitimate reasons to shoot dogs when conducting drug raids.”

Drug raids have done more damage to the constitution than any benefit gained.  In my personal theology, the cop who shoots an innocent family pet just earned an instant ticket to hell.

But he won’t be fired or even punished, most likely.

Basically, this whole “War on Drugs” idea is turning out to be nothing more than an excuse for ever more abusive police tactics and ever more egregious disregard of a person’s right to liberty and to be secure in his home and property.  I’m inclined to agree with that hardcore lefty, William F. Buckley, who said the War on Drugs had done more damage to more people than the drugs themselves could ever have done.

Reminds of another story in the LA Times a few days ago about another stormtrooper style raid (this one federal) on a medical marijuana clinic that was perfectly legal under California law. 

Recently the guys who produced The Wire wrote an article stating that if they were ever on a jury and the charge was drug possession and the accused hadn’t done anything violent then they would flat-out refuse to vote for conviction.  Maybe that’s a citizen’s last line of protest, the only thing he can still do to send the government the message that enough is enough.

These Same Exact Cops Killed an Innocent Family’s Dog LAST YEAR TOO! Because they Stormed the WRONG HOUSE!!

http://federalism.typepad.com/crime_federalism/2008/08/prince-george-c.html

Prince George County police officers are under scrutiny for killing Berwyn Heights Mayor Cheye Calvo’s two dogs.  Unfortunately for Prince George County residents, their police officers enjoy killing animals.  Here is a similar story from November, 2007:

An Accokeek couple is demanding an apology after Prince George’s County Sheriff’s Deputies burst into their home and killed their dog - all because deputies went to the wrong address.

Pam and Frank Myers were tucked away in their home Friday night watching a movie when the warrant squad pounced....

“And I said, ‘You just shot my dog,” said Pam Myers, through tears. “I just wanted to go out and hold her a bit. They wouldn’t even let me go out.”

The couple’s five-year-old boxer Pearl was killed. The deputy says he feared for his life. They say the dog would bark but was no danger to the deputies.

Of course, “The Sheriff’s Department says it’s investigating what went wrong.” Yet no one has been punished or suffered any career consequences for killing a helpless dog for sport.

The primary problem that I see here is a total lack of regard for the presumption of innocence.  As soon as the officers have cleared the scene of potential threats, they owe every civilian at the scene, suspect or non-suspect, the same level of respect provided by any other government employee that deals with the public.  The police can and should access areas of a home and search them without breaking things and trashing the place, because the suspect and homeowner is innocent until proven guilty. 

“But a large part of what differentiates liberals from conservatives is that conservatives think clearly and respond from facts rather than emotion and ideology.”

Another member of the Supreme Infallible Conservatives Klub (S.I.C.K.)!  Being omnipotent has got to be such a burden.  Maybe we dastardly liberals can create a government program to help…

I think there are legitimate reasons for tactical teams, and for no-knock warrants.  Problem is, both are being WAY overused, and for bad reasons.

Mike, you wrote “A conservative response would be to deal appropriately with wrong doing and to fix whatever went wrong without destroying the very necessary ability of the police to do their jobs.” I agree.  Problem is, we’ve seen too many of these raids all over the country, and the reaction of most departments is “They were following department standards in their actions, no action will be taken against them.” Even when innocent people were scared to death, their homes trashed, their pets killed.  Even in cases where the team went to the wrong address- or on a bum tip- and someone was injured or killed.  If the police seem to be more worried about protecting other officers from the consequences of a serious screwup like this than about fixing the damn problem, it makes it hard to trust them.  On a lot of things.  Which is one of the bad results of this crap.

but because every officer in America knows that there are a great many liberals who hate them for the offense of being police officers

I’m about as conservative as they come, and I am not a big fan of the police.

Unfortunately, if something like this happened at my home I’d likely be dead because anyone coming through my door unannounced is going to get shot at by high caliber weapons.

Mike writes:

How many times have the police been right!  How many times have the police solved murders!  How many tons of drugs never made it to the street because police stopped the sales!

In the words of Forrest Gump, police are like a box of mushrooms. Only a fool thinks that the number of mushrooms in the box that WEREN’T poisonous means a good g**d**** to anybody.

Mike writes about Rodney King “...this guy might be absolutely deserving of the beating he got and more,”. I can’t believe that someone who had been in law enforcement for decades would write such a thing; in effect, suggesting that the police could have been justified in their behavior. Police are sworn to uphold the law not administer beatings to those who they think deserve it. Living in the Northeast, I’ve met my share of liberals and have never met one who “hate them (the police)for the offense of being police officers”. That’s just bigoted ignorant nonsense. Of course there are people who hate the police, but to aim that at liberals is asinine. Just take a look at Timothy McVay and his ilk to see where the dangerous hatred of police resides.

This thread has wandered way too far afield. It is now closed.