Professor Bainbridge...on law, politics, religion, culture & food

Romney is becoming an embarrassment to himself.  It’s a shame.

Victor Davis Hanson warns what will happen with this nonsense from Romney: 

It is fine and good to talk of “attrition” by slowly and incrementally rounding up illegal aliens as they come in contact with government agencies and need various licenses, papers, statements, etc., but you are still talking about deporting millions, who are currently working and crime-free, rather promptly. The odd thing is that should illegal immigration cease at the border, the pool of illegals here, properly screened, would become static, and not be replenished, and, if the past is any guide, within a generation melt into the American pot.

So it seems that while “amnesty” is a political death sentence, so is mass deportation-the only element of the immigration debate that would play into the hands of the Democrats who otherwise lose big on the issue.

Far better it would be for the Republican candidates to talk of securing the border first, weeding out those who just arrived, have been convicted of crimes, or never worked, but then talking of an earned citizenship program, that has rather clear markers like learning English, paying a fine, and passing a citizenship test — while still working and residing in the U.S. If the border was secure, all of that need not morph, as in the past, into a rolling amnesty.

Bottom line: Republicans have to be careful that they don’t turn a windfall issue (the Democrats are mostly open-borders and captive to the identity-politics wing of the party) into a mass deportation albatross.

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZDBkNzQwOTgwZmQzNWNiMzQ2MmQ0Y2E5NDI3NzliM2Y=

I guess that’s what he meant about doubling Gitmo.

Re: “everybody but __ and __ seem to know this...”

And why don’t they?  Under-the-table payoff?  Or perhaps some kind of, uh, fixation?  So over the top, it’s at once fascinating and repelling, kind of like seeing a dead animal by the road.

That kind of talk is insane.

12 million is roughly the size of the population of Ohio.

Not to mention the effect that it will have on the economy.  Hello?  Those people are not sitting around, collecting government handouts.  They are for the most part WORKING.

Professor,

Regarding Romney’s comments, that he would “force out” all illegal immigrants, it is quite clear that he is not talking about deportation in most cases.  He quite specifically didn’t say that he would try to deport all illegal immigrants, (though of course he would have some deportations) but rather would force out illegal immigrants . It is the same principal of how we the IRS “forces” most people to comply with the income tax code.  If you followed your line of logic (if you can call it logic), there is no way the U.S. could have an income tax (or any other basic laws) because you can’t arrest 100 million+ taxpayers who have a material incentive to not pay (How would you round them all up and where would you put them?).  But of course, we don’t have to arrest 100 million people (though we due arrest some), you just require that most income be reported electronically by social security number to the IRS and most people will obviously follow the law with regards to the types of income where are there reporting requirements.  It is very easy to “force out” illegal immigrants by simply requiring electronic verification of legal status by all employers and government agencies and having heavy penalties if you don’t comply.  At that point, illegal immigrants are better off in their home countries working for whatever they can get.  The modest enforcement measures that we have seen in the past year by some states, and to a lesser extent the federal government, have already had a huge effect on money remittances to Mexico which are flat over the past year after growing 10 to 20% annually for the past decade.  Indeed, when you account for inflation and legal immigration (which would cause a natural increase in money remittances), it appears that the total illegal immigrant population has declined slightly over the past year.  Imagine what would happen if we had a national employment verification requirement as Arizona just enacted. 

R.K.

Maybe it is time we faced the fact that Romney’s problem is not just that he is pandering, it is that he is a flat out liar. He is a world class liar and no one is really saying that yet. Republicans better wake up to the fact that he is a liar and that nothing he says is dependable. Who knows what the hell he will do when he gets in office?

Yes!

As I wrote, back when I was blogging, “He will say anything to anyone to get elected anywhere.” (Dec. 2006)

I agree with RK. I looked at the article for the Romney quote, yet there was none. Just the surmise that he would force out.

Force out could just as easily be a policy that allows attrition for children born here, a touch back provision before legal status can be obtained (but maybe allowed to go on list an know when they are eligible before they go back), and strict deportation for anyone convicted of a crime. Coupled with as RK said, some strict employment fines (which would get stronger over the next decade.)

The main thing I’ve actually heard from Romney is that allowing illegals a shortcut, would encourage more illegals. Something that is logically and empirically true. Remember the “force” terminology here is - as far as I can tell - the authors choice of words. And there are other forces beyond guns.

One thing I’ve noticed - and this is not a good sign - is that Romney has triggered a viceral reaction from some of my favorite bloggers, this one, Baseball Crank, and even Instapundit seems a bit squeeemish in a “I can’t really put my finger on it, but I don’t trust him.” I’m not sure what causes it, I look at Romney and see a guy who’s a solid citizen, solid father, and done a good - great job in the various positions he’s held. The “flip flopping” charge doesn’t stick with me, because the definition of the flip flop was going from A -> B -> A imo. Romney changed on some key issues, but he didn’t change back and forth over and over. As a conservative in MA, he provided leadership I was very happy with and generally served as a very good executive.

Mitt is a mess on immigration: 

In fact, Mr. Romney’s approach is name-calling masquerading as policy debate. For as he made clear, he has not formulated a coherent approach to dealing with a central fact of the immigration problem: the 12 million undocumented foreigners already here. Challenging Mr. McCain on the 12 million, he asked: “Are they sent home? Are they sent home?” But minutes later, when Mr. Romney was asked by Charlie Gibson of ABC News whether it would really be practical to sweep up 12 million people and send them home, he answered with another couplet, this one more honest: “The answer is no. The answer is no.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/07/AR2008010702633.html

1. Response to comments about Romney: If he is a liar, as alleged, doesn’t he then fit well with many other candidates and, for that matter, former Presidents? [Signed: More cynical than joking.]

2. Response re illegal immigration: a) It’s illegal, hello?! And for the record, besides being here illegally, they’re not citizens and do not have “constitutional rights”. b) The bigger problem of illegal immigrants is their slave status. The standard reply to their complaints about living and working conditions is, “If you complain, I’ll get you deported.” They do have human rights, which cannot be protected because they’re hiding from the law, because they’re here--all together, now: ILLEGALLY. c) As is always brought up in their defense, they are working. Yes, but they’re not paying taxes like the rest of us, not having even minimum benefits (e.g. Worker’s Compensation) (or minimum wage, for that matter), not paying into Social Security. Thus even their work, so highly touted, is illegally conducted (and they remain unprotected under the law, because they’re out from under the law by their own choice). d) It has also been claimed that the majority of them are “law-abiding”; how can they be when their very presence here is illegal and they’re thus always hiding from the law?!

What can be done about this growing problem? Nothing, until we get honest enough to call it what it is, until politicians stop pandering to these non-voters (is that weird, or what), until their own self-proclaimed advocates stop trying to protect them from what’s good for them.

I actually agree with not formulating a policy on the 12 million until other things have happened. Such as stopping new immigrants and creating reverse incentives. Two articles linked by Derb on NRO showed that amongst Brazilians and illegals in AZ new laws that made it harder for illegals to stay in the country illegally, encouraged them to leave on their own.

As for VDH’s magical farmers who have been here 25 years own homes and pay taxes. 1. How did they miss the last amnesty? 2. What % do we think these are?

Unless the country is ready to drop the minimum wage illegal immigrant labor will be an attractive option for employers. But if illegal immigrants come, some percentage of them become near slaves in this country.

By the way another advantage of the declining dollar, makes sending home greenbacks less attractive.